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>> yeah. >> blake, if there is a deal to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff, could these jobs numbers get considerable better? >> i think so, but it's funny. the republicans are in a bit of a box here. their motivation is to say it's not so good. a lot of jobless people out there. we have a real problem. meanwhi meanwhile, we have fiscal cliff negotiations where the president wants stimulus mechanisms including an extension of unemployment insurance. they're like a doctor who diagnosed you with a severe ill sxns won't sign the precipitation to give you the medicine. they emphasize the joblessness problem, and they don't want to give you unemployment insurance and tell that to someone laid off sleeping in their car. >> with these jobs numbers, had hurricane sandy not struck how better would this report have been? >> a lot of this was construction job weakness. clearly, that will rebound. one of the unfortunate upsides of natural disaster is that you do, whether the states or federal governments do it or insurance companies, you have a lot of infrastructure spending as people rebuild from t
>> yeah. >> blake, if there is a deal to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff, could these jobs numbers get considerable better? >> i think so, but it's funny. the republicans are in a bit of a box here. their motivation is to say it's not so good. a lot of jobless people out there. we have a real problem. meanwhi meanwhile, we have fiscal cliff negotiations where the president wants stimulus mechanisms including an extension of unemployment insurance. they're like a doctor who...
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. >>> fiscal cliff, the thing we are trying to avoid, had $1.2 trillion in cuts but half are to defense. this has $1.2 trillion in cuts but they're just saying make the whole thing cuts to entitlements in domestic spending and not cut defense at all? trying to entice the democrats saying, i don't want you to fall off this cliff so why don't you voluntarily jump off this steeper cliff but don't worry, your fall will be cushioned by lava. >> that is jon stewart's take on the gop's fiscal cliff offer. he's right. we are better off stumbling down the slope like drunken fools than the republican offer out there. here to explain that and why a huge part of the talks making major changes to medicare may be totally unnecessary is jonathan cohn and joins us now. jon, i think that's a good place to start is this. itç seems like all of the discussions about medicare, in relation to the fiscal cliff or in general seems to have an ajumpgs a assumption it's a big program and in dire need for cutting and reform but there's a basic myth at work there of the efficiency of medicare. >> yeah. medicare i
. >>> fiscal cliff, the thing we are trying to avoid, had $1.2 trillion in cuts but half are to defense. this has $1.2 trillion in cuts but they're just saying make the whole thing cuts to entitlements in domestic spending and not cut defense at all? trying to entice the democrats saying, i don't want you to fall off this cliff so why don't you voluntarily jump off this steeper cliff but don't worry, your fall will be cushioned by lava. >> that is jon stewart's take on the gop's...
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cliff. that would allow tax rates to rise on everybody. then congress could come back after the new year and cut taxes on everyone but the wealthy. nbc's mike viqueira has the story. >> reporter: administration optimism for a deal. but only if republicans give in on raising rates for the wealthy. >> you think we'll get a deal by the end of the year? >> i do. the only thing that stands in the way of a deal right now is if a group of republican members decide they're going to block the deal because they want to extend tax cuts. we can't afford for the wealthiest 2% of americans. >> reporter: john boehner dug in. no rate rises on anyone. >> the president's idea of a negotiation is roll over and do what i ask. >> reporter: the opening bid brought the gop leaders by geithner is a nonstarter. >> i was flabbergasted. i looked at him and said, you can't be serious. >> reporter: included in the offer, $1.6 trillion in new revenue, twice what was on the table in last year's failed grand bargain, and $
cliff. that would allow tax rates to rise on everybody. then congress could come back after the new year and cut taxes on everyone but the wealthy. nbc's mike viqueira has the story. >> reporter: administration optimism for a deal. but only if republicans give in on raising rates for the wealthy. >> you think we'll get a deal by the end of the year? >> i do. the only thing that stands in the way of a deal right now is if a group of republican members decide they're going to...
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. >> if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff in. >> absolutely. there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. it's only 2%. >> i want to bring in "usa today" bureau chief and welcome to both of you. where are we in these negotiations, susan? >> i think the most encouraging thing was they agreed to the to characterize the phone call. the last time around the characterization of the phone call became a controversy in itself. i think it's pretty clear that the white house and republicans think the white house hand on this is strengthening. we see the polls that you mention, pew polls this week say americans trust the president more, assume if a deal is not reached -- trust the white house more, think if a deal isn't reached it, will be the fault of republicans and it is in fact easier for democrats to go over the fiscal cliff than it is for republicans because then all those tax cuts from the republicans are swept away. but it's too early. it's only december 6. we've
. >> if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff in. >> absolutely. there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. it's only 2%. >> i want to bring in "usa today" bureau chief and welcome to both of you. where are we in these negotiations, susan? >> i think the most encouraging thing was they agreed to the to characterize the phone call. the last...
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the biggest issue that's causing the fiscal cliff is the tax rates going up on the middle class. especially in this time now when we're getting out of this recession. we're seeing some robust growth. we want the christmas sales to be good. if the middle class knew that they're going to keep their tax cut, it would put a smile on everybody's face. and both parties can take credit for it. why won't they do it? there's only one answer. they're obsessed with protecting billionaires and millionaires. it's a sad state of affairs. >> one thing that we've seen in the days leading up, at least through this week, that there has been optimism from both sides expressed by speaker boehner, also by the president, and also republican tom cole, congre congressman, seem to be on board. now we have conservatives like charles krauthammer putting out their pieces saying let's go over the fiscal cliff, let the president do this. then john cornyn, republican from texas, saying apparently the president wants us to go over the fiscal cliff. this is serious business, demanding higher taxes, more stimulus
the biggest issue that's causing the fiscal cliff is the tax rates going up on the middle class. especially in this time now when we're getting out of this recession. we're seeing some robust growth. we want the christmas sales to be good. if the middle class knew that they're going to keep their tax cut, it would put a smile on everybody's face. and both parties can take credit for it. why won't they do it? there's only one answer. they're obsessed with protecting billionaires and...
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and as you know, this isn't one fiscal cliff. this is six or seven different things that can be taken on one at a time. the middle class and the working class can be protected. the only thing preventing that from happening is the house leadership. and that's a tough situation for the republicans to be in, where they either have to show their true priority, which is to hold the middle class hostage, or take this piece away and be forced to show what they're really standing for. >> but if you look at the fish bowl the republicans are swimming in right now, there are a lot of sharks. you've got mitch mcconnell, who's running for re-election. you've got eric cantor, looking over speaker boehner's shoulder. he'd love to have that job. i mean, how can you get an honest broker out of the republican camp, when all of this stuff is swimming around? you've got the hard right-wing tea partyers out there. you've got mcconnell looking at possibly being in a real tough re-election. and as i said, you know, boehner, is he protecting his backsid
and as you know, this isn't one fiscal cliff. this is six or seven different things that can be taken on one at a time. the middle class and the working class can be protected. the only thing preventing that from happening is the house leadership. and that's a tough situation for the republicans to be in, where they either have to show their true priority, which is to hold the middle class hostage, or take this piece away and be forced to show what they're really standing for. >> but if...
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the president is answering questions about the fiscal cliff. how does that work? >> well, it's kind of interesting, andrea. we know that the white house has adopted a campaign-style way to sell the need to raise tax rates and generate more revenue from the wealthy. this is kind of in keeping of -- they have a couple minute video sent to reporters. this is another way to try and drive conversation via social media and amp up pressure on lawmakers to get republicans to capitulate. this is kind of one part i would say of a multi-front effort to adapt some of the tactics that clearly work for president obama in the campaign imported over to policy. they tried this with health care, andrea, back in 2009. it didn't work all that well. let's see if this operation works better. >> the other big twitter aannouncement today wa was @pontifx. the pope is going to start tweeting as of september 12th. >> he already has more followers than you and i and has been on for one day. >> it's amazing how things happen. >> god. >> back to the white house, jay carney said during the brie
the president is answering questions about the fiscal cliff. how does that work? >> well, it's kind of interesting, andrea. we know that the white house has adopted a campaign-style way to sell the need to raise tax rates and generate more revenue from the wealthy. this is kind of in keeping of -- they have a couple minute video sent to reporters. this is another way to try and drive conversation via social media and amp up pressure on lawmakers to get republicans to capitulate. this is...
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the "news nation" is following where things regard right now with the fiscal cliff and there's hot rhetoric to go around. >> our members believe strongly that raising tax rates will hurt the economy. closing loopholes, especially on those who are wealthy, is a better way to raise this revenue. >> in order for us to raise the amount of revenue that's needed just by closing deductions and loopholes for high earners we'd have to, for example, eliminate or severely cap the char itible deduction. >> an obsession to raise taxes not going to solve the problem. what will solve the problem is doing something about the entitlements, taking on the wasteful spending in washington. >> and meantime, "the new york times" jonathan wiseman reports behind the scene republican leaders are considering the president's plan to extend middle class tax cuts now an address the debt and spending in the new year. here's republican senator tom coburn on "morning joe." >> actually, i would rather see the rates go up than the other way and greater chance to broaden the base in the future. >> do something, a down payment
the "news nation" is following where things regard right now with the fiscal cliff and there's hot rhetoric to go around. >> our members believe strongly that raising tax rates will hurt the economy. closing loopholes, especially on those who are wealthy, is a better way to raise this revenue. >> in order for us to raise the amount of revenue that's needed just by closing deductions and loopholes for high earners we'd have to, for example, eliminate or severely cap the...
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cliff. it's time for the president, if he's serious to come back to us with a counter offer. >> the president told a virginia family on thursday he won't back down on taxing the rich. >> just to be clear, i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for folks at the top 2%. but i do remain optimistic that we can get something done that is good for families like this one. >> the rebels gain on assad raising fears he might use chemical weapons. that was enough to frighten the russians into talking with hillary clinton about a political transition. >> the united states stands with the syrian people in insisting that any transition process re -- result in a unified democratic syria in which all citizens are represented. the future of this kind cannot possibly include assad. >> a tragic turn of events in london. the nurse that first transferred that prank call to duchess catherine is found dead. david axelrod shaves it all off on "morning joe." >> joe scarbor
cliff. it's time for the president, if he's serious to come back to us with a counter offer. >> the president told a virginia family on thursday he won't back down on taxing the rich. >> just to be clear, i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for folks at the top 2%. but i do remain optimistic that we can get something done that is good for families like this one. >> the rebels gain on assad raising fears he might use chemical...
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cliff policies and they made a projection that while 2013, if all of the fiscal cliff things and all is enacted in congress and you do nothing to stop the tax rate increases for everybody, 2013 will be bad but by 2018 and 2020 we will be a better did debt to gdp ratio than we've had in decades, that we will be running budget surpluses and we'll be full deployment. do you believe the analysis of the fiscal cliff impact was too rosy? >> projections are very difficult. it's very difficult to take into account the effect on confidence. as i said, consumers have been confident. they've maintained that confidence. but look at what happened during the debt limit debacle a year ago august. look at how the economy came to a grinding halt at that point. >> and that's your fear that the cliff could just freeze consume earp confidence and that's something you can't right now project as an economist? >> no one wants to go over the fiscal cliff. worse would be for the president to sign a bad bill. >> all right. alan krueger, chairman of the president's counscil on economi advisers. mr. krueger, ni
cliff policies and they made a projection that while 2013, if all of the fiscal cliff things and all is enacted in congress and you do nothing to stop the tax rate increases for everybody, 2013 will be bad but by 2018 and 2020 we will be a better did debt to gdp ratio than we've had in decades, that we will be running budget surpluses and we'll be full deployment. do you believe the analysis of the fiscal cliff impact was too rosy? >> projections are very difficult. it's very difficult to...
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that's the whole issue here. >> on the fiscal cliff front, no new deals or concessions made public, but "the new york times" reports the dynamic has changed. at the request of speaker boehner, senate leaders and nancy pelosi have been dismissed from the negotiating table. leaving just the speaker and the president to hammer this one out. today vice president biden is hosting middle-class families at the white house, continuing to pressure congress to strike a deal on tax rates below 250,000. yesterday, the president struck a hopeful note with a middle-income family in virginia, while maintaining a hardline on negotiations. >> the message that i think we all want to send to members of congress is, this is a sovble problem. i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for rate at the top 2% but i remain optimistic we can get something done for that is good for families like this one and that is good for the american economy. >> but the clock is ticking. with just two full weeks before christmas to go. joining me now from washington, the man with all t
that's the whole issue here. >> on the fiscal cliff front, no new deals or concessions made public, but "the new york times" reports the dynamic has changed. at the request of speaker boehner, senate leaders and nancy pelosi have been dismissed from the negotiating table. leaving just the speaker and the president to hammer this one out. today vice president biden is hosting middle-class families at the white house, continuing to pressure congress to strike a deal on tax rates...
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fortunate americans and others to avoid the fiscal cliff between now and december 31st but take what we agree on which is that the middle class tax cuts should be extended and tax rates should not go up for the middle class, let's do that now. the republicans refuse to do that thus far, which is sort of baffling. even some of their senior members like tom cole from oklahoma have said let's take that deal, but let's pass the tax cuts for the middle class and we're talking about making sure that tax rates for 98% of all americans and 97% of all businesses. it's a small percentage of individuals that make more than $250,000 a year that tax rates would go up just a little bit. we had an election, thomas, where americans had a clear choice and they chose and we need to make sure that we think a balanced approach that is fair, that doesn't throw the middle class under the bus and that works mathematically. so far what we've seen from republicans in the house does not work in terms of reducing the deficit. >> congresswoman, we are watching the president on our screen at the business roundta
fortunate americans and others to avoid the fiscal cliff between now and december 31st but take what we agree on which is that the middle class tax cuts should be extended and tax rates should not go up for the middle class, let's do that now. the republicans refuse to do that thus far, which is sort of baffling. even some of their senior members like tom cole from oklahoma have said let's take that deal, but let's pass the tax cuts for the middle class and we're talking about making sure that...
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joining me is bob casey who is moderating the hearing on the fiscal cliff next week. sir, i start with the comparison of the two plans so everyone can see this. the gop plan through closing loopholes and no deductions and rate hikes, as we pointed out as exposed under the democratic plan. the republican plan includes more entitlements through republican reform and then eligibility age being raised than the gop plan including changes of social security not addressed under the president's plan. so these plans, obviously, to the naked eye, they deliver greatly. no matter what con eggs sessions will be made on oert side, explain where you see the sensible center. >> first of all, that plan makes no sense because it forgets about and casts aside the most important focus we've got to bring to this, is what happens to middle income families. that's where the house should pass the legislation. we've already passed. give some certainty. get that part of the deal done. then we can have a debate about upper income folks. the idea that you have a bill in the house that will prote
joining me is bob casey who is moderating the hearing on the fiscal cliff next week. sir, i start with the comparison of the two plans so everyone can see this. the gop plan through closing loopholes and no deductions and rate hikes, as we pointed out as exposed under the democratic plan. the republican plan includes more entitlements through republican reform and then eligibility age being raised than the gop plan including changes of social security not addressed under the president's plan....
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finally this week, there is a much more serious potential issue on the table than the fiscal cliff, folks. secretary of state hillary clinton did an unusual thing and warned president assad there will be consequences if he crosses a line and uses chemical weapons. we know why. pentagon sources tell nbc news the syrian government has loaded seran gas a deadly nerve agent, into aerial bombs and is just waiting for a command from president assad to use it. this week u.s. intelligence detected that flurry of activity at chemical weapon sites. >> our concerns are an increasingly desperate assad regime might turn to chemical weapons or might lose control of them to one of the many groups that are now operating within syria. we have sent an unmistakable message that this would cross a red line and those responsible would are held to account. >> this morning in dublin a sign that the diplomacy is intensifying secretary clinton met with her counterpart, russian minister lab rov and a u.n. special envoy on the side of an international security conference she is taking part in. russia is one of syri
finally this week, there is a much more serious potential issue on the table than the fiscal cliff, folks. secretary of state hillary clinton did an unusual thing and warned president assad there will be consequences if he crosses a line and uses chemical weapons. we know why. pentagon sources tell nbc news the syrian government has loaded seran gas a deadly nerve agent, into aerial bombs and is just waiting for a command from president assad to use it. this week u.s. intelligence detected that...
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with the fiscal cliff three weeks away, it's absolutely crazy to be talking at that level of nonspecificity. and then, yes, you're right. you're talking about not just holding tax rates where they are, which wouldn't really work for high income people, but lowering tax rates and then making up your spending cuts by kicking the heck out of social insurance perhaps, medicare, medicaid, and social security. this is big time robin hood in reverse without any specifics at absolutely the worst time. >> professor peterson, grover norquist appears to think the president regards himself as a monarch preparing for coronation. take a listen to what he told my colleague, alex wagner, earlier today. >> and he thinks somebody made him king and he's going to have more taxes, more spending, and more regulations. it's a real problem for him. he doesn't have the mandate he thinks he does. so i think he takes us over the cliff because he doesn't -- he's got blinders on. he doesn't see where he stands in the universe. >> the president will take us over the cliff because he doesn't understand his place in the u
with the fiscal cliff three weeks away, it's absolutely crazy to be talking at that level of nonspecificity. and then, yes, you're right. you're talking about not just holding tax rates where they are, which wouldn't really work for high income people, but lowering tax rates and then making up your spending cuts by kicking the heck out of social insurance perhaps, medicare, medicaid, and social security. this is big time robin hood in reverse without any specifics at absolutely the worst time....
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he said "republicans are seriously considering a doomsday plan if fiscal cliff talks collapse entirely. it would be quite simple. house republicans would allow a vote on extending the bush middle class tax cuts. that bill already passed in august in the senate. and offer the president nothing more. no extension to the debt ceiling, nothing on unemployment, nothing on loopholes. congress would recess for the holidays and the president would face a big battle early in the year over the debt ceiling. two republican officials tell me this is becoming the most likely scenario. "the new york times" added more detail including this amazing quote from rep michael c. burgess of texas. "there's always better ground, but we have to get there." in this case the better ground is exchanging the threat of a congressionally induced recession for the threat of a congressionally induced global financial crisis combined with recession. that, that is your better ground? that's a big plan? it's not -- it's not better ground for the economy. and, frankly, i find it difficult to see how it's better political
he said "republicans are seriously considering a doomsday plan if fiscal cliff talks collapse entirely. it would be quite simple. house republicans would allow a vote on extending the bush middle class tax cuts. that bill already passed in august in the senate. and offer the president nothing more. no extension to the debt ceiling, nothing on unemployment, nothing on loopholes. congress would recess for the holidays and the president would face a big battle early in the year over the debt...
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look, i think it hurts everybody politically if we go over the fiscal cliff. republicans will pay a larger price. it's about making sure they don't drive themselves off a middle class cliff by digging their heels into lower rates. actual hadly have lower rates for the wealthy than the wealt >> tripp, you work for a group -- you're saying, hey, we stand for principle but you're not there to win elections. you're there to win policy fights. >> right. >> the fact is, if republicans could be -- some concern is republicans pulling away from the vote. >> hopefully good policy makes good politics. in this case, if we can see the tax issue, that's not going to fix the problem. the drivers of the debt is spending but also is is entitlement and boehner punting, capitulated to the white house -- >> capitulation on the white house doesn't even -- >> that's a pretty -- >> well, we're all going to put our heads in the sand and say that entitlement are not the drivers of the deficit. >> you don't think he put enough detail on the entitlements? >> no. >> we'll ask him that wh
look, i think it hurts everybody politically if we go over the fiscal cliff. republicans will pay a larger price. it's about making sure they don't drive themselves off a middle class cliff by digging their heels into lower rates. actual hadly have lower rates for the wealthy than the wealt >> tripp, you work for a group -- you're saying, hey, we stand for principle but you're not there to win elections. you're there to win policy fights. >> right. >> the fact is, if...
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the president took to twitter today to answer questions about the fiscal cliff. one person asked whether deductions for homeowners are at risk to which the president responded, breaks for middle class important for families and economy. if top rates don't go up, danger that middle class deductions get hit. signed "bo." yesterday house speaker john boehner said this on fox news. >> listen, nobody want to go over the cliff. that's why the day after the election i tried to speed this process up by making a concession to put revenues on the table. it's unfortunate that the white house has spent three weeks doing basically nothing. you know, the president's idea of a negotiation is, roll over and do what i ask. >> and on "meet the press" yesterday grover tried to change america's mind about who to blame if we do go off the cliff. >> tea party 2 is going to dwarf tea party one if obama pushes us off the cliff. let's not pretend who's pushing us off the cliff. >> but continuing to insist that the president does have the better argument. >> at the end of the day, preside
the president took to twitter today to answer questions about the fiscal cliff. one person asked whether deductions for homeowners are at risk to which the president responded, breaks for middle class important for families and economy. if top rates don't go up, danger that middle class deductions get hit. signed "bo." yesterday house speaker john boehner said this on fox news. >> listen, nobody want to go over the cliff. that's why the day after the election i tried to speed...
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cliff. treasury secretary tim geithner is on capitol hill right now set to meet with nancy pelosi in less than an hour. earlier today geithner met behind closed doors with house speaker john boehner, senate majority leader harry reid and frank mcconnell. the word he used to describe the overall negotiations, disappointing. >> no substantive progress has been made in the talks between the white house and the house over the last two weeks. listen, this is not a game. jobs are on the line. the american economy is on the line. and this is a moment for adult leadership. campaign style rallies and one-sided leaks in the press are not the way to get things done here in washington. >> democrats today said they're confident a deal can be reached by christmas. but admit negotiations would need to pick up steam. as for senator reid, he says it's now up to the gop to make the next move. >> we're still waiting for a serious offer from the republicans. the president has made his proposal. we need a propos
cliff. treasury secretary tim geithner is on capitol hill right now set to meet with nancy pelosi in less than an hour. earlier today geithner met behind closed doors with house speaker john boehner, senate majority leader harry reid and frank mcconnell. the word he used to describe the overall negotiations, disappointing. >> no substantive progress has been made in the talks between the white house and the house over the last two weeks. listen, this is not a game. jobs are on the line....
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to go off the fiscal cliff? >> if republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels, a time when the american economy is doing exceptionally well, then there will not be an agreement. >> but house speaker john bigger is digging in himself, admitting talks are going nowhere. speaker boehner also described the moment when secretary geithner first showed him the president's opening offer. >> i was just flabbergasted. i looked at him and said, "you can't be serious." i've just never seen anything like it. you know, we've got seven weeks between election day and the end of the year. and three of those weeks have been wasted with this nonsense. right now i would say we're nowhere, period. we're nowhere. we've put a serious offer on the table by putting revenues up there to try to get this question resolved. but the white house has responded with virtually nothing. they've actually asked for more revenue than they've been asking for the whole entire time. >> wha
to go off the fiscal cliff? >> if republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels, a time when the american economy is doing exceptionally well, then there will not be an agreement. >> but house speaker john bigger is digging in himself, admitting talks are going nowhere. speaker boehner also described the moment when secretary geithner first showed him the president's opening offer. >> i was just flabbergasted. i...